REBELLION. The Sexual Revolution Is An Attempt To Make God Irrelevant.

There is little doubt that the homosexual lobby in the West has engineered one of the most successful campaigns for social and legislative change in the last century. No other group has achieved such success in transforming the prevailing culture and in restricting religious freedom. What has caused such radical shifts in social attitudes towards homosexuality over the past few decades? And how did this shift take place on an international level in such a short time? Dr Peter Jones answers these questions in this stunning interview with Peter Hastie.

Peter, the pop songs of the 1960s and ’70s proclaimed a new world order of peace through the sexual revolution. Was the sexual revolution a totally new phenomenon, or were there earlier precedents?

As I have studied the changes that began in the ’60s, it seems to me that, at its roots, the sexual revolution that took place then was a massive and frontal assault on a theistic view of reality and on a binary understanding of sexuality (that is, the view that heterosexuality is the norm for human relationships).

Whether we realise it or not, Christian theism, what I call Two-ism, and a binary view of sexuality have formed the underpinnings of 1700 years of Western civilisation. So the sexual revolution of the ’60s was a deliberate and calculated attempt to deconstruct the edifice of our cultural traditions and worldview. My hunch is that the West, including Australia, may never recover from the sweeping changes that began then. To the extent that the Christian church bears witness to God’s plan for sexuality in the world, it will become a social scapegoat. Christians today will face the same taunts that the Roman historian Tacitus made against Christians in the first century. He said that they were “haters of humanity”.

It was a dramatic and overdrawn way of saying that first century Christians were not playing the game of following the values of the world and worshiping the emperor. I think we are living through a similar scenario today. What most people miss is that the ongoing sexual revolution represents the deconstruction of Western civilisation and its reconstruction on a radically different basis.

People sometimes say to me, “But hasn’t this happened before?” And my reply is, “Not really.” We have had outbreaks of sexual deviancy in the past, such as in ancient Rome. Likewise, earlier in the 20th century in Germany there was a cult of sexual deviance that arose in intellectual circles and had some connection with the occult. It actually spawned figures like Carl Jung, who was one of the architects of the ’60s revolution. So there are some parallels. However, in my judgment, what we have seen in the last generation is unprecedented.

Why? Is it due to the far-reaching effects of the ’60s sexual revolution or is it because of its underlying ideological commitments?

Both. Their combined force has effectively overturned 1700 years of Christian civilisation — in the space of one generation! Naturally, sexuality is a very powerful driving force, especially when it is coupled to a particular worldview that is sympathetic to unrestrained self-expression. One of the lessons we have learned over the past 50 years is you can’t mess with sexuality and not change the whole worldview that goes along with it. Just think about the profound changes that take place at a literary level when a culture discards its traditional views of sexuality.

Think, for example, about the nursery rhymes, fables and songs that become totally out of date once our society approves of gay marriage. We will no longer have the freedom to go back and use the traditions and literature of the past. We will be cut off from our past because it is so binary in its focus.

So can we expect more criticism of traditional children’s literature than we have had over the past 30 years?

It will be much worse. The next wave of criticism will involve a radical dismissal of our cultural history. It will be politically incorrect to make any references to traditional values. What this means is that we will experience thought-control at a whole new level. We will lose a whole civilisation in one go. I am not talking about a few ethical changes here and there, or the fact that a small group of people will win some further civil rights. I am talking about the legal and social consequences of recognising that homosexuals have all the rights and privileges of heterosexuals, especially with respect to marriage.

Once society grants legal status to homosexual marriage, then it will be possible to punish those who oppose it. As soon as it becomes law, it suddenly becomes unlawful to express dissent. The Christian position will be delegitimised overnight.

I think the homosexual community has been working incredibly hard to achieve full legal rights in every area of life. One of the next things to happen in the USA is that we will have a strong push to have an openly homosexual judge on the Supreme Court.

That’s already happened in Australia. One of the former judges of the High Court is openly gay…

That’s not surprising because it’s consistent with the homosexual agenda to win these sorts of positions. In the USA we are seeing similar moves at the lower levels of the judiciary. There is a growing number of judges who are lesbians, particularly in areas like the family courts.

Once they gain judicial office they can exercise considerable power through the culture. I am not sure that Americans are ready for a gay Supreme Court Justice. That will raise the struggle to a completely new level, but it will happen, I am sure.

Is this agenda simply driven by raw sexual desire, or is there a far deeper ideological agenda involved?

Sexual desire is certainly an underlying factor; we cannot escape the fact that we are sexual beings with desires that arise out of our nature. However, we need to recognise that our desires are also shaped by our views about life in general.

While the ’60s revolution was certainly a revolution that called for greater sexual freedom, it was a radical revolution that rejected the notion of authority (including God’s) as well as authoritative notions of male family leadership.

This aspect of our social structure has been swept away. The idea that a husband has the spiritual care and responsibility for his family has been demonised. Many people today vilify it as a great evil. Along with the rejection of traditional notions of authority there has also arisen a search for a new worldview and spirituality. Deconstructed sexuality is an essential part of that development. None of this should surprise us.

I think Paul makes this point in Romans 1:18-32 where he describes the pagan attitude to life. He observes it in its relationship to God and revelation, then to worship, and finally to sexuality. His analysis of paganism shows that it begins with a rejection of the true God, which leads to a rejection of pure worship, which in turn leads to a rejection of heterosexuality. In Paul’s mind, lust and worldview are both factors in the rejection of God’s order for normal sexuality. We see the connection when Paul links homosexuality with paganism and calls it “unnatural”. What he means by that, of course, is that paganism is anti creation.

It begins by rejecting the Creator, worshiping created things, which ultimately leads to unnatural sexual experiments. That was the essence of the Roman worldview and it explains what has happened in our time. We have been overtaken by a pagan worldview.
The sexual revolution is not simply a matter of lust. It is a serious attempt to remove God from the centre of life and construct an alternative reality that has serious sexual and social implications. If Christians don’t see that then they will not be able to address modern culture in any serious way. Frankly, we are losing it at this level. I find it amazing that large numbers of so-called evangelical Christians are totally capitulating to the gay agenda.

Can you explain how ancient paganism developed its own ideas about sexuality and its links with gnosticism?

As you know, gnosticism was one of the greatest threats to the early church. What many people don’t realise is that it is making a significant come-back today. It is certainly alive and well in the modern evangelical church.

Gnosticism is simply ancient mystical paganism in Christian dress. When it comes into the church it tries to re-cast the gospel according to pagan norms. In that sense, it is an ally of liberalism.

Liberalism is the adaptation or deconstruction of theism/Two-ism into various forms of monism which I also call One-ism. Monism, as you know, is the belief that there is only one basic substance or reality in the universe. Monism therefore denies the Creator-creature distinction that is fundamental to biblical thinking.

Gnostic thought begins with several ideas that are diametrically opposed to Christianity. First, gnostics believe that the Creator of the Bible is a fool. Second, they do not see the fall in terms of man’s rebellion against God; instead they regard it in terms of being transformed from a spiritual form into a physical one. For gnostics, matter is evil and redemption consists of putting off our physical natures and turning back into spirits. To be delivered from the fall means that we are delivered from our physical nature and transformed into pure spirits. So, for gnostics, it really doesn’t matter what you do with sexuality. You can either deny it totally, or just do anything you want. Both options represent a rejection of created norms.

In gnosticism everything that we learn in the Bible is turned upside down. God the Father (Yahweh) is cast into hell by the female goddess, Sophia. For gnostics, Yahweh is the ultimate devil. The Serpent, on the other hand, speaks the truth and is the wisest of all the animals. Eve is the wise woman. It’s interesting that the gospel of Thomas ends at the 114th logion where Peter says to Jesus, “Is Mary one of us?” And Jesus replies, “When Mary becomes a male she can be a living spirit with you”. Essentially, what this means is that gnosticism is a system of thought that undoes the whole creation, especially the distinction between the sexes.

This explains why gnostics have counselled women to flee motherhood. They believed that if women became pregnant and have children they would place themselves under bondage to the created order. The ultimate aim for gnostics is to reverse mankind’s fall into matter and obliterate the distinctions between maleness and femaleness by returning to oneness of spirit.

Is their teaching spreading in significant ways into the Christian church? Are Christian scholars more open to gnostic teaching than they were 30 or 40 years ago?

Yes, I think gnosticism has established a strong presence within the modern church, mainly through changing views about sexuality. Radical feminists are not simply content with pushing for greater equality between the sexes –they also want to overturn a Christian theistic vision. In its place, they want to substitute a vision of the pagan mother goddess and the divinisation of nature.

This movement is well ensconced in liberal churches. Lloyd Geering, well known in the southern hemisphere for his radical liberalism, programmatically entitles his forth-coming book, Coming Back to Earth: From Gods to God to Gaia, and predicts that the global community will return to the worship of Nature. What is surprising is that we are now seeing it in some evangelical movements.

Tony Jones, who was the national coordinator of the Emergent Village, came out in favour of gays and gay ministers. Doug Paget, his pastor in Minnesota, says that it is time for us to rethink the Creator/creature distinction.

Showing where he thinks the church should put its major efforts, this ordained Christian minister has just declared himself as a candidate as a senator for Minnesota. Rejecting the very essence of the Christian faith by denying that God is the Creator, he believes that Christianity is nothing more than social activity and radical egalitarianism. All this has happened under the cover of evangelicalism.

What is now clear is that many people who have called themselves evangelicals in the past are not really evangelicals at all. The problem is that they have been promoted as such by many publishers like Zondervan and IVP. This year at the National Pastors’ Convention some of them were on the main platform as speakers. AP published my thoughts on that last month.

What is the big theological issue at stake in the battle over sexuality?

The big issue in this controversy is the one involving worldview. Basically what we need to understand is that the new sexuality is coming out of a worldview that is radically opposed to Christianity. When I explain this to people, I remind them that if they want to defend the Christian view of sexuality against the post ’60s version, then they need to understand the two competing worldviews from which they arise.  

Paul describes these two worldviews in Romans 1. The one that leads to sexual license and immorality begins when people exchange the truth for a lie and worship the creation rather than the Creator. The other one, which leads to a proper expression of one’s sexuality, begins by the true worship of the Creator God of Scripture. So the contrast between the two worldviews is simple: it all begins with what you worship. If you worship the Creator your sexual relationships will be “natural”; if you worship created things they will be “unnatural”. It’s as simple as that, though few ever realise it. When they do for the first time their eyes go wide and they say, “I never saw that before!” I get great pleasure in helping people to see these issues clearly, especially students. I lecture every year at the Blackstone Fellowship in Phoenix. It’s the teaching arm of a major Christian legal organisation, The Alliance Defence Fund. To see these top notch Christian law students connect the dots for the first time and see the issues so clearly, is most moving.

Do gay apologists talk much about the religious significance of homosexuality?

There are some who certainly do. I have been reading one of them recently. He claims openly that homosexuality is identified with a particular religious worldview. He says that the gay movement has developed “a critical perspective which has allowed a relaxation of morality and religious taboos that made homosexual liberation and sexuality possible”. Further, he says, “The gay critical perspective on gender potentially liberates us from the strict gender conventions and polarisation.” How does this happen? Well, he goes on to say that homosexuality grows directly out of a mystical pagan worldview in which everything is one and that distinctions are unimportant. As far as he is concerned, once you admit that there is only one reality or substance in the universe then you abolish all the classical distinctions between good and evil and sin and holiness, and you finally get rid of duality.

Modern feminists claim that primal society was matriarchal and represented the Golden Age, but it has been destroyed by male dominated societies. How should we respond to the claim that the goddess society is the way to redemption?

Fortunately we don’t have to answer claims like this anymore because feminists are now embarrassed that they ever made them. Cynthia Eller, wrote a book a few years ago, The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory: Why the Invented Past Won’t Give Women a Future. She
says, “Showing the fallacies in this argument is like shooting fish in a barrel.” It was a myth that was invented by the second wave of feminism and it no longer sticks.

Why do modern New Agers like Shirley Maclaine think of God in androgynous terms?

Precisely because of what I said a moment ago, that the pagan wants to abolish distinctions in sexuality, indeed, in everything. Monism says, “All is one and one is all.” They want to bring everything together. The idea of male and female has to be destroyed by erasing the importance of distinction. Androgyny (combining male and female in one person) is the aim of paganism.

June Singer, a Jungian psychologist, wrote a book in 1977 called, Androgyny: Towards a New Sexuality. The fascinating thing is that back in 1977 no one knew a word of what she was talking about. She actually says that “androgyny is the sacrament of monism.” When I first came across her statement, I jumped with delight because here was a Jungian, pro-homosexual, woman saying that this whole sexual revolution had a spiritual focus and goal. Homosexuality is the carrier at the physical level of the monistic worldview. This explains why Shirley Maclaine says we are all androgynous – it’s part of the ideology of paganism.

Think of it this way: paganism is about bringing everything together. It is not about god being out there and I am here; it’s about a union between god and me. And the mystery in paganism is that god is in me and I am god! Of course, if this is true at a spiritual level, it is true at the moral level (good and evil are relative) and the religious level (all religions are one), so it is also true on the sexual level. It is not “males here” and “females there”; I am actually both male and female and there is no ultimate, valid distinction between the sexes.

Which means that ShirleyMaclaine is free to enter into any relationship, whether it is homosexual, bisexual, transgender, or bestial…

Precisely! That’s (bestiality) what’s on the way. It’s already on the internet. Some of the sites are absolutely dreadful. I can hardly bring myself to look at them, so I don’t. Paul describes it all in Romans 1:22-24 when he says that these people worshiped birds, four-footed animals and crawling creatures. This is exactly what is happening today. Oddly enough, neo-Jungian transpersonal psychology has statements of a new therapy which is designed to provoke in the disturbed person the experience of the shaman (pagan priest), which involves identification with animals. This has become a new therapy. Paul has not invented anything that we cannot see in the modern world.

In what sense do they believe that redemption lies in androgyny?

For modern pagans redemption involves a denial of God’s creation. The gospel for pagans and Gnostics has to do with liberation from creation as well as the Creator; they seek release from social structures that require us to live in a certain way. On the other hand, the Christian gospel proclaims reconciliation reconciliation with the Creator. Monism is a view of life that allows you to escape from the structures of creation and the person of God Himself. So, it is a radically apostate move, but it falsely promises human liberation.

Does this explain why many feminists are so down on motherhood?

Exactly. The experience of motherhood draws a woman into the web of the created order. The gnostic or pagan approach to motherhood is to think, “Well, why does this have to be the way it is, having children and all that kind of stuff?”

Does this explain why Paul says that salvation for women comes through childbearing?

Yes, I think it does. I think Paul means (1 Timothy 2:15) that women will find ultimate fulfilment in recognising their own sexuality and accepting the created order, which normally will include childbirth, in fulfilment of the command of Genesis 1:28, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.” I think he is talking about salvation in the larger sense of human wellbeing, as he does, with the same term, in 1 Timothy 4:10. “God is the saviour, that is, benefactor of all men.” Paul is not saying that every woman has to be a mother to be saved and belong to Christ. Rather, in childbirth she experiences and gives to others the creational blessing of children.

What is the homosexual strategy for social transformation?

I believe the intention of gay ideologues is to create a society like Sodom. They want the reins of power. They are not happy simply to be free to do whatever they choose. They actually want social affirmation and the legal structures that impose their way of living on everybody else. They want control. I am no prophet, but I don’t think it will be too long before we see powerful homosexuals prosecuting and persecuting Christians. The moves are already underway to make it happen. Imagine what it will be like when everything is in place.

You mean, when it has the sanction of law?

Yes. That’s the strategic objective for gay marriage. If you are a member of a culture where gay marriage has become legal, you are obliged to affirm it. We can expect a whole raft of hate crimes to support the changes. Once gay marriage is passed into law, there will be no turning back.

I was in an airport the other day watching CNN and they were talking about opening up marriage to homosexuals. Lots of viewers were asking the question, “What is the big deal? Aren’t there 100 more important issues than this?” The tragedy is that most people are completely blind to the cultural and social consequences of going down this road. We are suffering a collective lack of wisdom. For the most part, people can’t see beyond the end of their noses.

Is there any reason why homosexuality has been closely linked to the occult throughout history?

Yes, because it is an overt attempt to overturn the truth with lies. In Romans 1:25 Paul says that they “exchanged the truth of God for the lie”. Most translations have “a lie”, but the Greek has “the lie”. Of course, “the lie” is the lie at the beginning. It is the lie of the devil in the garden. Finally, and ultimately, the lie leads into the realm of the occult. The reason why this is scary is because this is where the homosexual agenda leads its followers. I don’t know how many homosexuals realise the frightening spiritual dimensions of what they are doing. It has demonic overtones. The further they go into this sort of stuff the more oppressive and controlling it becomes.

Is there some reason why shamans (pagan priests) have been homosexual?

I think it is because they go out beyond the boundaries of the natural into the unnatural, and the unnatural, of course, is the lie and it is beckoning. There is power there; there is evil power. People find that they can’t resist it.

You have said that there are spiritual roots to homosexuality. How do you respond to people who say that homosexuality is an issue in our genes and we can’t help it?

I tell them to read Romans 1 and then I begin by discussing the importance of worldview. The fact of the matter is that there has been no scientific evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is located in our genes. Even the neuroscientist, Simon LeVay, who was widely reported as claiming that he had found the gay gene, has expressly denied those reports. In an interview he gave about 15 years ago, he said, “It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way...Nor did I locate a gay centre in the brain.”

So why are people drawn into homosexuality and lesbianism?

My own view is that there are all sorts of reasons why people go into homosexuality. Many have had dysfunctional relationships with adults and especially parents and, having greatly suffered, solve their problems by entering the homosexual world. Many of them are not interested in the occult, which is sad because I think most of them don’t realise the danger of what they are doing. The fact is that they are playing with fire. Young people are quite naïve about this. 75% of young people in America think that homosexuality is fine. This is the next generation. People are usually not driven in the beginning by the occult, but eventually it comes around to that. Today homosexuality has become so popular that a young guy who is not the macho-male is often considered homosexual, and he isn’t. You can be a non-athletic guy and still be a male. We have to avoid this stupid sort of stereotyping.

Again, there are some young men who are seduced by New Age spirituality and move from there into homosexuality. I remember once meeting a young man who came up to me after a lecture and thrust a piece of paper into my hands. Part of it read, “I am angry about the temptations I experience … I have realised that my frustrations are produced by this evil movement, but at the same time I still have these desires. This new age philosophy is leading me into paganism.” This guy was 6 foot 10 (208cm) and I thought he was going to Kill me after my lecture on the difference between the Christian and pagan worldviews.

I kept the piece of paper and I have stuck it on my office door. It reminds me of the torture that many of these young men experience.

Eight years later I was talking to a group of students in Nashville about homosexuality, and they were saying, “How does this kind of thing work?” I said, “The best way to relate to homosexuals is by explaining the nature of homosexuality in the context of worldview. Tapping people on the shoulder and saying that God hates homosexuals doesn’t work”. Then I described this incident. After the meeting, a student came up to me and said, “I know that man. He is one of my best friends”. I said, “Well, tell me about him”. He said, “That man had the best bass voice in American opera and after your lecture he gave up opera singing, fame and fortune and became the director of an aged care facility. I asked him, “Doesn’t he sing anymore?” He said, “Not on the stage, but you should hear him sing in church!”

So, I am encouraged to place homosexuality in the context of worldview. It takes the heat out of the situation, gives no place to moralism, and helps people to see the overarching spiritual issues. It is never helpful to attack individuals. Instead, I try to give them an idea of the world in which they are living and the fact that they have chosen a course which will end in misery and judgment. I keep that piece of paper on my door. I like to think of it as a trophy of grace.

Virginia Mollenkott claims that compulsory heterosexuality is the backbone of traditional Christianity. However, she says that lesbian, bisexual and gay issues are wedges that are going to break it apart. What does she mean?

She means precisely what the gay scholar I was talking about earlier had said. He said, “The gay critical perspective on gender potentially liberates us from the strict gender conventions and polarisation.” Mollenkott was once a Christian from a Brethren background.

She became a pagan and a lesbian. She agrees with this view. In her book Sensual Spirituality she defends 14 different genders that should be a part of our modern culture. Anyway, she is a classic case of someone who is a lesbian and a pagan. At least she is consistent; she hasn’t tried to remain an evangelical.

My own personal observation is that the longer so-called “Christian” gays and lesbians
persist in their unnatural activities, the more likely they are to leave Christianity behind. I think that’s pretty easily demonstrated. Virginia Mollenkott is a perfect example of what happens when you go down this road.

When celebrities like Ellen Degeneres push homosexuality, do you think that they have some particular agenda that extends beyond their need for love, affection and companionship?

 Yes, I believe that they have an agenda. I find it hard to believe that the leaders of the gay movement do not have some broader social and cultural objectives. If you ask me, “How do you know what they are thinking?” I would answer, “When I read some of the quotes I have just mentioned to you, it becomes obvious that there is a lot of gay thinking that is taking place at a sophisticated level. The gay lobby is motivated by more than sexual desire or civil rights; every human being has a worldview that informs his/her attitudes and behaviour, and wants to make the world confirm to that vision.”

Can you explain why this phenomenon has gained so much influence and power in essentially one generation?

Not so long ago I gave a lecture at the Calvin Symposium in Indonesia on the pagan nature of the Renaissance. One of the things I discovered in my research is that paganism flourished in the city of Florence during that period. You had thinkers from around that time like Ficino and Pico della Mirandola, philosophers and thinkers who were committed to spreading Hermeticism, a form of ancient gnosticism. The art of the period was in many ways homoerotic, and during this period, in Florence, homosexuality was openly practiced. I found it fascinating that the relationship between paganism and homosexuality all of a sudden appears in the western world as the result of thinkers trying, by the introduction of paganism, to overturn the influence of biblical Christianity in the society.

Why does it happen then? It is a complicated subject, but there is certainly a connection there. What happens in the 1960s is that homosexuality breaks out again as a result of an ideological revolution of a handful of people. It started with this group of intellectuals, seeking sexual liberation and the spirituality of the East.

It began slowly at first, but then the pace of change became rapid and before too long the pagan worldview was translated into social policies and party political platforms. That was quite amazing. How exactly did it happen? I don’t know that I can connect all the dots, but there were certainly figures like Alfred Kinsey and Hugh Hefner who were providing the research and promotional base for the new sexuality. However, behind it all lurks the figure of Carl Jung. What does Jung do? He normalises the subconscious. The subconscious becomes the realm in which we are truly ourselves. According to Jung, the conscious is just a façade. Our real “self” is in the subconscious, made up of both male and female.

It is not surprising that we are now discovering that people identify their sexuality on the basis of what they feel themselves to be. They find their identity in their subconscious self or whatever they imagine themselves to be, not in their created biology. They can be 6 foot 4 inches, hairy and have bulging biceps but they still want to use the ladies’ bathroom. Today, in some places, we have laws which allow them to do this.

Jung was also a pagan – a radical pagan – and his thoughts are crucial to understanding intellectual developments in the 20th and 21st centuries.

Richard Noll, a Harvard researcher, has done the most incredible research on Jung. He demonstrates that Jung was a pagan. I love the introduction in his book: “I will risk controversy with an additional observation. Through years of reflection on the considerable impact that Jung has had on the spiritual landscape of the 20th century, I have come to the conclusion that as an individual he ranks with the Roman Emperor of the 4th century, Julian Apostate, as one who significantly undermined orthodox Christianity and restored the polytheism of the Hellenistic world in western civilisation. I realise that this is quite an incautious statement reflecting the hubris of the historian… nevertheless I believe that… Jung has succeeded where Julian failed.” I think this statement explains why Christians need to understand what Jung was proposing.

How crucial is the defence of the creation and fall narratives to overcoming the neo-pagan outlook? What will happen if we don’t hold the line at these points?

If we don’t defend the binary defining notion of existence, which includes the concepts of male and female, good and evil, truth and lies, God and the world, Creator and creature, then the world as we know it implodes into the notion of oneness. I think that is why the Bible is so insistent on the male/female distinction because it forces us to recognise the dualism that exists at the heart of the creation, in the very being of the human creature. Pagans want a non-dual reality “All is one and one is all.”

However, God has created a world with important distinctions and for the sake of civilisation we need to keep thinking in those terms. It’s biblical and it’s the way we were made by God. The pagan vision is “the lie”. It is false and an illusion. If people follow the lie they will destroy themselves and the world in the process. The church must stand against this, even if it faces severe persecution.

Peter, the stakes involved are enormous. One day we may find ourselves in a global Roman Empire, intent on eliminating all dissent—for the sake of peace and survival! I can’t say it with any more passion than I have already said it. I believe we are playing for keeps right now over this whole issue. The tragedy is that so few people in the church see it. Only those who do will be able to stand in the evil day.

Dr Jones is the director of truthXchange and an adjunct Professor of New Testament at Westminster Theological Seminary, Escondido, California. He holds a MDiv from
Gordon-Conwell Seminary, a ThM from Harvard Divinity School and a PhD in New Testament from Princeton Theological Seminary. He was a boyhood friend of John Lennon and played music with him. He is still a keen musician who plays jazz piano.

A former missionary theological educator in France, Dr Jones is the author of a number of best-sellers, The Gnostic Empire Strikes Back, Spirit Wars, and Cracking Da Vinci’s Code. Dr Jones has a web-site: www.truthXchange.com

This interview with Peter Hastie was first published in "Australian Presbyterian" October 2009. We are very grateful for permission to publish this interview. All photos have been added by CHRISTIAN FAITH.